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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptics own podcast

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episode number 538 for the 10th of

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February 2019 which edit Saunders here

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with you from Sydney Australia it's been

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very hot and muggy over the last week

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yesterday was particularly mucky it

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seemed today is a bit cooler now coming

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up on this week's show we talked to

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Professor Richard Wiseman who has just

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released a new book called shoot for the

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moon Richards going to tell us what this

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books all about why it's called shoot

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for the moon and what inspired him to

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write it always a pleasure to speak to

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Professor Richard Wiseman and I have

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been using his material from quirkology

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which we also speak about in the science

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presentations for many many years the

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court jester of science professor

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Richard Wiseman also on this week's show

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we bring you news of a new president for

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the Friends of Science in medicine the

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Friends of science in medicine is a very

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necessary and worthwhile organization

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here in Australia promoting good science

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in medicine and battling quackery and

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fakery then I speak to Paul Fleming's

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from the Australian Museum and Patrick

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Tuohey --get from the Office of

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environment and heritage about citizen

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science they both gave a presentation

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the other day a few days ago at skeptics

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in the pub here in Sydney to talk about

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how you me and everybody else as

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citizens can help contribute to good

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science and then from the pages of the

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skeptic magazine the journal from

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Australian skeptics we revisit the time

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Australian skeptics attempted to test a

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man who claimed to have something like

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paranormal powers and this is a report

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by our challenge coordinator Ian Bryce

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did we discover psychic powers find out

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later on and to round off the show it's

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Trish and chips with our new reporter

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Trish Hann Trish was at skeptics in the

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pub as well

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and was asking the the pub goes the big

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question who should be the patron saint

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of skepticism stay tuned at the end of

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the show for some more announcements and

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upcoming events but right now right now

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it's time for me to run downstairs and

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make myself a cheese and spinach toasty

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while I do that I hope you enjoy the

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skeptic zone and joining me now all the

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way from wonderful beautiful Edinburgh

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is Professor Richard Wiseman hello

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Richard hello there how are you I'm very

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well it's really wonderful to catch up

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with you we seem to do this oh I don't

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know at least every year or maybe every

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other year to find out your latest

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adventures first of all first of all I

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noticed that quirkology is still

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steaming on the video series you must

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have so much fun making that well it's

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astonishing I mean actually nowadays we

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don't make that many videos we've just

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posted one actually to promote the new

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book but normally we don't and the

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astonishing thing is this you say it

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still continues still going I don't know

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what it is hundreds of thousands of

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views a week so thank you to everyone

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who watches and I still get emails about

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videos that I made probably a decade ago

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from the salon say yeah get onto YouTube

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you live on you live on eternally on

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there you do and I love quirkology there

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are so many good videos up there to see

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but the creativity that and the time and

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the effort that you do or you have done

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in the past to make those incredible

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videos where the impossible happens and

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you can hit pause and wonder about it

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for a week and then watch the conclusion

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and see behind the scenes there must

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have been joyful and frustrating at the

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same time to make all those oh

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absolutely is I mean in exactly equal

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measure so when you get it you kind of

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go yes and then what you wipe out your

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memory thanking

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for the joys of a FAL ability of memory

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in this instance is issues next year or

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so you forget the hundreds of takes that

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didn't work the huge arguments you had

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over it the convincing of that the you

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it was actually impossible at some point

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in that process for carrying on the

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perseverance and all of that so now is

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great I mean every single one you know I

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can remember doing because we did it so

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many times basically yeah yeah because

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at the end of most videos there are a

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couple of what we could call outtakes I

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suppose where it failed where the person

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hiding behind the chair or whatever it

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was sneezed or coughed or something fell

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over it's hilarious yeah yes yeah

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and it's it's great me funny enough

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actually was just filming it wasn't a

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quick ology video with I involved in

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putting some magic into a West End show

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and I was just filming something they

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pour yesterday for them and we did it I

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think two takes there was a levitating

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suitcase we did it in two takes and they

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were like okay fine I was gonna need you

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understand normally we do like two

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hundred takes to get something like this

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and we're just going credibly lucky

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early on and then they just thought that

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was the process so I was going no no no

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we're we're normally we bring sandwiches

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when we do a dua shoots because we know

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we're going to be there for a very long

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time now folks if you haven't seen the

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range of videos at quirkology on youtube

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there will be a link in this week's show

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notes and i strongly advise you to do it

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because the other thing i'm involved

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with one of the other things is of

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course of the mystery investigators live

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show for schools and for i don't know

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five six seven years now richard we have

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been playing as part of the live

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presentation your video on and now is it

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perceptions it's um with the assumptions

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i big upon assumptions of course with

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the giant coffee cup and the and the

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pictures on the wall and all that so I

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know that one actually was I think two

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or three takes it really was set it up

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and just did it oh that was unusually I

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filmed that one on my own and did it and

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that black one really did go in the can

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incredibly quickly and yeah it's been

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shared a lot on Facebook and Twitter so

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yeah a lot lots of fun lots of fun and

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the the series of bets you will always

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win is that also on the quirkology said

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yeah absolutely that they are the most

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popular videos I'd look to the other day

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we've got 34 million views and and they

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are science based bets that that you'll

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always win and for some reason it just

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caught fire as soon as we put those out

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there and then there's a book that came

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off of that as well so yeah all fun

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oh good clean fun that's what I like to

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say good clean science fun now let's

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talk about your new book which is called

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shoot for the moon an interesting angle

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on science and dare I say motivation can

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you tell me what inspired you to make

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this book and what's it all about

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well it's what it was based on a chance

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conversation so I was talking to a

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friend of mine who's Helen Keane who is

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a comedian but also a huge kind of space

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fan she does lots of science comedy and

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we're talking about Paulo and landing

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men on the moon and I said obviously has

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been huge amounts written about the

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technology but how much has been written

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about that the psychology the mindset

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that put us on the moon and she said

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well not very much actually hardly

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anything and I still don't be a fun

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project and she said well the people

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that you'd really want to speak to her

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what are called the Mission Control as

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this small group of people that sat at

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the heart of the Apollo missions and

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we're really there guiding Armstrong and

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Buzz Aldrin down and I said yeah but how

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how I'm gonna reach these people and she

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so he should talk to my friend Craig and

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I said always Craig connected with NASA

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and she said no he's a welder in Wales

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hello it right and she didn't know he's

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befriended all these mission controllers

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he's hugely passionate about Paulo go

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and talk to Craig so I got in touch with

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Craig and I told him how I was doing and

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Craig went yep I'll put you in touch

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with all these people and I say oh hold

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on a second it's the 50th anniversary of

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that happening so they must be very very

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very elderly people are they even still

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alive and this is why I found out the

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first amazing thing about Mission

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Control which is when Armstrong and

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Aldrin walked out onto the moon the

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average age in that room the group of

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people that were doing at the average

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age 26

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they are were a phenomenally young bunch

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of people and so therefore now they're

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in their late 70s a few Limor ladies and

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so I went and spoke to them and

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interviewed them and no one has asked

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them about the psychology before

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everyone had asked them about the

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technology and then sort of drew out the

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lessons of achievement and as you say

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sort of motivation and really the book

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is about not only how they did what they

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did but how you can incorporate those

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same lessons into your life when you

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want to do something well because of

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course as you say it's 50 years coming

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up 50 years since the first moon

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landings and we've gone through the

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period in the last 20 years not so much

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now of course the moon hoaxers the

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people say that we never went to the

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moon and you two must be sick of this

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occasionally people will look at me and

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say you skeptics you don't even think we

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went to the moon that's where I tear my

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hair out yes yeah that's right of course

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an achievement of the ages it's still

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stunning to this day and what an

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interesting angle for a book it must

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have been endlessly fascinating to to

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talk to these people well it was a kind

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of I mean it was astonishing because

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I'll give you one example so you have I

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don't know how much people know about

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the moon landings but basically three

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astronauts blast off from the earth they

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go to the moon they orbit the moon and

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then two of them get into a small thing

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which is called the lunar lander and go

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down onto the moon and it's while the

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other one stays in the kind of orbiting

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craft and it is terrifying because the

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technology they're using you know the

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old Babbage is absolutely true that

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you've got more technology and

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modern-day smartphone then you've got

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involved in certainly involved in those

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spacecraft and no one has ever done this

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before so to put it into perspective at

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the time that Kennedy said let's go to

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the moon America had gone about a

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hundred miles away from the surface of

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the earth the space station and the

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shuttles they go about 250 miles the

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going to the moon is a quarter of a

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million miles and you've got to land

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and you've got to get out no one's ever

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got out in the atmosphere before they

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thought the dust may be so thick on the

271
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:28,459
moon that you'd simply sink into it and

272
00:11:32,650 --> 00:11:31,130
die like quicksand and then you've got

273
00:11:35,199 --> 00:11:32,660
to get back on your craft to get back

274
00:11:37,900 --> 00:11:35,209
into that orbiting craft and get back to

275
00:11:41,380 --> 00:11:37,910
earth so you know it's an astonishing

276
00:11:42,940 --> 00:11:41,390
achievement and so imagine that Aldrin

277
00:11:45,310 --> 00:11:42,950
and Armstrong it gets into this tiny

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00:11:48,310 --> 00:11:45,320
craft they're going down to the surface

279
00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:48,320
of the Moon and they're being watched by

280
00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:51,890
500 million people live is the biggest

281
00:11:56,530 --> 00:11:54,170
event in the history of humanity and

282
00:11:59,829 --> 00:11:56,540
there's a guy called Steve bales in

283
00:12:02,260 --> 00:11:59,839
Mission Control he's 26 and is his job

284
00:12:05,910 --> 00:12:02,270
to essentially guide them down he's a

285
00:12:10,079 --> 00:12:05,920
key part of that guidance team and

286
00:12:13,210 --> 00:12:10,089
suddenly a computer alarm comes up and

287
00:12:15,010 --> 00:12:13,220
he makes this historic decision about

288
00:12:17,829 --> 00:12:15,020
whether or not they should continue or

289
00:12:20,829 --> 00:12:17,839
abort and so I'm reading about this

290
00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:20,839
amazing piece of history 26 year old 500

291
00:12:25,930 --> 00:12:24,050
million people watching history in the

292
00:12:28,660 --> 00:12:25,940
making I'm reading about this and the

293
00:12:32,590 --> 00:12:28,670
next minute I'm talking to him you know

294
00:12:35,050 --> 00:12:32,600
I'm done talking to Steve bales who now

295
00:12:38,139 --> 00:12:35,060
is going yeah yeah did that one last 26

296
00:12:39,579 --> 00:12:38,149
yeah and I'm saying to him like how long

297
00:12:41,380 --> 00:12:39,589
did you have to decide you know this

298
00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:41,390
alarm flashes up how long did you have

299
00:12:44,740 --> 00:12:43,010
and he said well I think if you listen

300
00:12:48,519 --> 00:12:44,750
to the audio I think it's probably three

301
00:12:50,139 --> 00:12:48,529
seconds and you're going oh my goodness

302
00:12:51,910 --> 00:12:50,149
these people were history in the making

303
00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:51,920
and and you talk to them it's a

304
00:12:57,430 --> 00:12:53,450
different mindset to the one we have now

305
00:12:59,260 --> 00:12:57,440
in terms of success and I think you know

306
00:13:01,900 --> 00:12:59,270
in terms of talking to the thing the

307
00:13:05,170 --> 00:13:01,910
thing that really struck me was how

308
00:13:06,699 --> 00:13:05,180
humble they were you know I've spoken to

309
00:13:08,230 --> 00:13:06,709
lots of organizations about luck and

310
00:13:10,180 --> 00:13:08,240
success it's one of my areas of

311
00:13:14,350 --> 00:13:10,190
psychology this were a group of people

312
00:13:16,210 --> 00:13:14,360
who never used the I word it's we we did

313
00:13:17,650 --> 00:13:16,220
everything and when you try and talk to

314
00:13:18,850 --> 00:13:17,660
them about their achievements they keep

315
00:13:20,530 --> 00:13:18,860
trying to get you to talk to other

316
00:13:23,470 --> 00:13:20,540
people who are more important than they

317
00:13:27,460 --> 00:13:23,480
are in their mind and so it is an

318
00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:27,470
astonishingly humble group of people who

319
00:13:31,329 --> 00:13:29,810
did so much and and so the book is this

320
00:13:33,369 --> 00:13:31,339
kind of untold story I think of

321
00:13:35,199 --> 00:13:33,379
achievement before we go Richard

322
00:13:37,419 --> 00:13:35,209
there is a promotional video you made

323
00:13:40,929 --> 00:13:37,429
about the book where you actually sent

324
00:13:43,809 --> 00:13:40,939
the book itself into space that was that

325
00:13:45,999 --> 00:13:43,819
was a very very mad so there we found a

326
00:13:48,369 --> 00:13:46,009
company called sent into space in the UK

327
00:13:50,879 --> 00:13:48,379
I said could we launch a book into space

328
00:13:54,489 --> 00:13:50,889
and they went yes of course we can and

329
00:13:56,529 --> 00:13:54,499
so we we put it to arm to a balloon it

330
00:13:57,999 --> 00:13:56,539
goes up about 35 kilometers you get

331
00:14:00,549 --> 00:13:58,009
these amazing shots which are on the

332
00:14:02,829 --> 00:14:00,559
quirkology channel look within them the

333
00:14:05,829 --> 00:14:02,839
hold of the earth in the in the

334
00:14:07,719 --> 00:14:05,839
background and is incredible and it's

335
00:14:09,759 --> 00:14:07,729
amazing thing to do and then if you

336
00:14:13,899 --> 00:14:09,769
watch the video you will see right at

337
00:14:15,669 --> 00:14:13,909
the end that I say as a joke I say my

338
00:14:17,979 --> 00:14:15,679
calculations is that the book will stay

339
00:14:20,199 --> 00:14:17,989
up there for quite a long time and the

340
00:14:23,409 --> 00:14:20,209
idea was that somebody threw a book off

341
00:14:25,629 --> 00:14:23,419
camera and it landed just in front of me

342
00:14:27,429 --> 00:14:25,639
and what actually happens is they threw

343
00:14:30,549 --> 00:14:27,439
the book another astonishing astonishing

344
00:14:34,029 --> 00:14:30,559
luck bad luck it hits me very hard

345
00:14:36,719 --> 00:14:34,039
firmly on the head and so there's a lot

346
00:14:38,919 --> 00:14:36,729
of swearing from me so for all of the

347
00:14:40,239 --> 00:14:38,929
actual danger of launching something

348
00:14:43,269 --> 00:14:40,249
into space that went absolutely

349
00:14:45,340 --> 00:14:43,279
swimmingly and the real danger for me

350
00:14:49,569 --> 00:14:45,350
was idiot Wiseman trying to get a joke

351
00:14:51,249 --> 00:14:49,579
shot at the end of the no yes there's a

352
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:51,259
fun video to make the amazing video an

353
00:14:55,090 --> 00:14:52,970
amazing work they do well you're not

354
00:14:56,859 --> 00:14:55,100
known as the court jester of science for

355
00:14:59,259 --> 00:14:56,869
nothing Richard and I'll put a link to

356
00:15:01,599 --> 00:14:59,269
all those things on this week's show

357
00:15:03,340 --> 00:15:01,609
notes but for now Richard Wiseman

358
00:15:05,349 --> 00:15:03,350
professor Richard Wiseman all the way

359
00:15:06,129 --> 00:15:05,359
over there in beautiful Edinburgh thank

360
00:15:06,990 --> 00:15:06,139
you very much

361
00:15:16,740 --> 00:15:07,000
pleasure thank you

362
00:15:21,879 --> 00:15:19,750
so what's quirkology all about well

363
00:15:23,189 --> 00:15:21,889
there are surefire bets that you can use

364
00:15:25,420 --> 00:15:23,199
to impress your friends

365
00:15:27,819 --> 00:15:25,430
incredible illusions that will blow your

366
00:15:30,579 --> 00:15:27,829
mind interactive experiments to

367
00:15:32,259 --> 00:15:30,589
bamboozle your brain magic tricks and we

368
00:15:34,090 --> 00:15:32,269
don't just perform the tricks but also

369
00:15:36,250 --> 00:15:34,100
take you backstage so you can see the

370
00:15:39,490 --> 00:15:36,260
secret practical jokes to make you laugh

371
00:15:44,470 --> 00:15:39,500
and lots of amazing science stunts that

372
00:15:47,139 --> 00:15:44,480
always work no kinda so subscribe now

373
00:15:49,090 --> 00:15:47,149
and watch our videos you won't believe

374
00:16:04,840 --> 00:15:49,100
your eyes

375
00:16:07,569 --> 00:16:04,850
[Music]

376
00:16:11,290 --> 00:16:07,579
now here's a message from our friends at

377
00:16:13,870 --> 00:16:11,300
the Friends of science in medicine this

378
00:16:17,370 --> 00:16:13,880
organization battles quackery and has

379
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:17,380
been around for about six seven years

380
00:16:22,269 --> 00:16:20,050
battles quackery and promotes good

381
00:16:25,420 --> 00:16:22,279
science in medicine hence the name

382
00:16:28,660 --> 00:16:25,430
Friends of science and medicine their

383
00:16:30,579 --> 00:16:28,670
website is science in medicine org

384
00:16:34,059 --> 00:16:30,589
a you with links in this week's show

385
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:34,069
notes and this statement comes to us

386
00:16:39,050 --> 00:16:37,450
published on the 6th of February 2019

387
00:16:41,700 --> 00:16:39,060
[Music]

388
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:41,710
friends of science and medicine welcomes

389
00:16:50,870 --> 00:16:47,600
on Ash University associate professor

390
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:50,880
Ken Harvey AM is the new president of

391
00:16:56,420 --> 00:16:52,890
Friends of science and medicine he

392
00:16:59,360 --> 00:16:56,430
replaces Professor John Dwyer a Oh the

393
00:17:02,030 --> 00:16:59,370
founding president Friends of science in

394
00:17:04,970 --> 00:17:02,040
medicine founded in 2011 has grown to

395
00:17:07,430 --> 00:17:04,980
become a major critic of unscientific

396
00:17:09,950 --> 00:17:07,440
health practices and fraudulent health

397
00:17:12,950 --> 00:17:09,960
claims it has advised governments and

398
00:17:15,620 --> 00:17:12,960
the media made numerous submissions to

399
00:17:17,930 --> 00:17:15,630
inquiries and provided extensive public

400
00:17:20,810 --> 00:17:17,940
advice concerning dubious health claims

401
00:17:23,290 --> 00:17:20,820
and practices it successfully advocated

402
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:23,300
the removal of private health insurance

403
00:17:29,150 --> 00:17:26,850
taxpayer-funded rebates from natural

404
00:17:32,140 --> 00:17:29,160
therapies that lacked evidence of

405
00:17:34,190 --> 00:17:32,150
efficacy professor Harvey said quote

406
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:34,200
valuing scientific riah

407
00:17:38,810 --> 00:17:36,770
is especially important in an age where

408
00:17:41,830 --> 00:17:38,820
unsubstantiated health claims are

409
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:41,840
rampant and scientific consensus is

410
00:17:47,510 --> 00:17:44,610
imbalanced by the views of extremists

411
00:17:50,210 --> 00:17:47,520
unquote Friends of science in medicine

412
00:17:52,850 --> 00:17:50,220
campaigns against the unethical

413
00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:52,860
promotion of therapeutic goods and

414
00:17:58,610 --> 00:17:56,090
services to customers quote we critique

415
00:18:01,010 --> 00:17:58,620
unproven and exploitative services

416
00:18:04,460 --> 00:18:01,020
offered by medical practitioners such as

417
00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:04,470
the infusion of intravenous vitamins and

418
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:06,720
collation therapy we are equally

419
00:18:11,390 --> 00:18:08,970
concerned about traditional Chinese

420
00:18:13,810 --> 00:18:11,400
medical practitioners claiming that

421
00:18:16,610 --> 00:18:13,820
acupuncture can treat infertility or

422
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:16,620
naturopaths advocating homeopathy end

423
00:18:22,190 --> 00:18:19,650
quote said professor Harvey quote we

424
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:22,200
encourage tertiary institutions and

425
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:24,450
students of medicine and Health Sciences

426
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:27,330
to critically appraise therapeutic

427
00:18:32,060 --> 00:18:29,610
products and services as part of the

428
00:18:34,580 --> 00:18:32,070
courses offered complementary medicines

429
00:18:37,460 --> 00:18:34,590
provide a fertile field for students to

430
00:18:40,930 --> 00:18:37,470
assess the often outrageous claims made

431
00:18:43,460 --> 00:18:40,940
and report regulatory breaches end quote

432
00:18:47,150 --> 00:18:43,470
last year the therapeutics Goods

433
00:18:50,270 --> 00:18:47,160
advertising Code Council and complaint

434
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:50,280
resolution panel CRP were abolished and

435
00:18:56,450 --> 00:18:53,370
the Therapeutic Goods Administration TGA

436
00:18:58,909 --> 00:18:56,460
took over the advertising complaints

437
00:19:01,399 --> 00:18:58,919
system Health Minister Hunt sir

438
00:19:03,729 --> 00:19:01,409
these measures quote will enable

439
00:19:06,220 --> 00:19:03,739
potential harms from inappropriate

440
00:19:10,159 --> 00:19:06,230
advertising to be comprehensively

441
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:10,169
prevented end quote quote researched by

442
00:19:14,570 --> 00:19:11,730
members of friends of science in

443
00:19:15,289 --> 00:19:14,580
medicine and consumers lack of trust in

444
00:19:17,810 --> 00:19:15,299
the TGA

445
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:17,820
shows that the ministers assertion has

446
00:19:23,239 --> 00:19:19,919
not been realized and quote said

447
00:19:25,879 --> 00:19:23,249
professor Harvey he concluded quote the

448
00:19:28,279 --> 00:19:25,889
critique by Royal Commissioner Haynes on

449
00:19:31,249 --> 00:19:28,289
the regulatory failure in Australia's

450
00:19:34,190 --> 00:19:31,259
financial services industry is equally

451
00:19:36,470 --> 00:19:34,200
applicable to the TGA a failure to

452
00:19:38,979 --> 00:19:36,480
enforce the law undermines the authority

453
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:38,989
of the regulator whose fundamental

454
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:42,330
responsibility is to do just that it

455
00:19:46,930 --> 00:19:44,369
also encourages others to break the law

456
00:19:50,210 --> 00:19:46,940
leading to a race to the bottom and

457
00:19:54,230 --> 00:19:50,220
consumer detriment these are important

458
00:19:58,190 --> 00:19:54,240
federal election issues end quote

459
00:20:00,649 --> 00:19:58,200
[Laughter]

460
00:20:03,259 --> 00:20:00,659
so congratulations to Professor Ken

461
00:20:05,180 --> 00:20:03,269
Harvey any worthwhile man in a

462
00:20:06,649 --> 00:20:05,190
worthwhile position and for more

463
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:06,659
information I encourage you to visit

464
00:20:13,310 --> 00:20:10,850
science in medicine one-word org dot au

465
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:13,320
where you can read a lot more about the

466
00:20:18,230 --> 00:20:14,090
organization

467
00:20:24,380 --> 00:20:21,700
[Laughter]

468
00:20:26,300 --> 00:20:24,390
hi I'm Darrin McKee one of the hosts of

469
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:26,310
the reality check each week my co-host

470
00:20:29,690 --> 00:20:28,050
and I explore a range of controversies

471
00:20:31,130 --> 00:20:29,700
and curiosities using science and

472
00:20:33,050 --> 00:20:31,140
critical thinking you can find us on

473
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:33,060
iTunes your favorite podcasting platform

474
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:34,650
and on Facebook by searching for the

475
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:36,210
reality check or by following us on

476
00:20:40,340 --> 00:20:38,730
Twitter at TRC underscore podcast until

477
00:20:44,380 --> 00:20:40,350
then keep an open mind but not so open

478
00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:52,279
[Music]

479
00:20:55,950 --> 00:20:54,509
it's kept this in the pub and we just

480
00:20:57,659 --> 00:20:55,960
had a wonderful talk about citizen

481
00:20:59,340 --> 00:20:57,669
science and who do we have here

482
00:21:00,810 --> 00:20:59,350
Paul Clemens manager of digital

483
00:21:03,269 --> 00:21:00,820
collections and citizen science at this

484
00:21:05,070 --> 00:21:03,279
frame is in and Patric Taylor one of the

485
00:21:07,499 --> 00:21:05,080
citizen science scientists at the office

486
00:21:08,220 --> 00:21:07,509
environment and heritage and I'll start

487
00:21:09,779 --> 00:21:08,230
with you Paul

488
00:21:11,669 --> 00:21:09,789
you were showing us interesting things

489
00:21:13,919 --> 00:21:11,679
about how citizens are collecting data

490
00:21:18,539 --> 00:21:13,929
points and one of the things that I

491
00:21:20,279 --> 00:21:18,549
found fascinating was the frogs is this

492
00:21:23,310 --> 00:21:20,289
really engaging to the public to find

493
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:23,320
out about frogs Paul people love frogs

494
00:21:26,940 --> 00:21:25,690
doesn't everybody love frogs but

495
00:21:28,409 --> 00:21:26,950
certainly we've we've also we've got a

496
00:21:30,779 --> 00:21:28,419
great project team at the Museum and

497
00:21:32,519 --> 00:21:30,789
Jodie rally who was our herpetologist

498
00:21:35,099 --> 00:21:32,529
and frog expert at the museum is an

499
00:21:36,989 --> 00:21:35,109
extraordinary personality and the

500
00:21:39,060 --> 00:21:36,999
project lead and she does all she's

501
00:21:40,979 --> 00:21:39,070
tireless in her media work and that has

502
00:21:43,229 --> 00:21:40,989
a big impact in terms of promoting frog

503
00:21:44,909 --> 00:21:43,239
ID she's on the radio she's on the TV

504
00:21:46,739 --> 00:21:44,919
stand in the newspapers she's very

505
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:46,749
knowledgeable she's got funny stories

506
00:21:49,649 --> 00:21:48,730
she does frog calls on Saturday mornings

507
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:49,659
with Simon Marnie

508
00:21:53,970 --> 00:21:52,210
so she's an amazing benefit to the

509
00:21:56,039 --> 00:21:53,980
project also the project itself immense

510
00:21:57,180 --> 00:21:56,049
mobile phones mobile technology

511
00:21:59,489 --> 00:21:57,190
everybody's got a mobile phone

512
00:22:01,710 --> 00:21:59,499
everybody can download frog ID you can

513
00:22:03,389 --> 00:22:01,720
get everybody his frogs calling maybe

514
00:22:05,340 --> 00:22:03,399
not in daily life but it's not that hard

515
00:22:07,259 --> 00:22:05,350
to go out here a frog calling you record

516
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:07,269
a frog call you get feedback on what

517
00:22:11,729 --> 00:22:10,210
sort of frog species that was you look

518
00:22:13,229 --> 00:22:11,739
at the project grow and how we're

519
00:22:15,090 --> 00:22:13,239
learning more and more about frogs we're

520
00:22:18,460 --> 00:22:15,100
learning about how some frogs are

521
00:22:19,930 --> 00:22:18,470
traveling because of transport of

522
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:19,940
horticultural products and things like

523
00:22:24,700 --> 00:22:22,250
that some frogs are declining because of

524
00:22:26,740 --> 00:22:24,710
climate change we're finding new

525
00:22:30,070 --> 00:22:26,750
possible new species we're finding

526
00:22:31,419 --> 00:22:30,080
species extensions so it's really it's

527
00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:31,429
an amazing project we've got

528
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:33,440
collaborating collaborators from all

529
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:34,850
over Australia all the museums around

530
00:22:39,820 --> 00:22:37,970
Australia involved very passionate

531
00:22:41,409 --> 00:22:39,830
individuals from around the country

532
00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:41,419
which particularly the Northern

533
00:22:45,100 --> 00:22:42,710
Territory in Western Australia at the

534
00:22:48,570 --> 00:22:45,110
moment which mean that we get really

535
00:22:50,499 --> 00:22:48,580
good pictures of an understanding of the

536
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:50,509
distributions of frogs in those areas

537
00:22:53,889 --> 00:22:52,250
which we haven't had a lot of data on

538
00:22:57,190 --> 00:22:53,899
before because they're relatively remote

539
00:22:58,840 --> 00:22:57,200
areas and so it's quite a phenomenal

540
00:23:01,330 --> 00:22:58,850
project it's a wonderful example of

541
00:23:03,669 --> 00:23:01,340
citizens during science and you are

542
00:23:07,090 --> 00:23:03,679
giving an example of how citizens doing

543
00:23:10,570 --> 00:23:07,100
science were examining the the effects

544
00:23:12,249 --> 00:23:10,580
on the coast our coastal regions yeah

545
00:23:13,930 --> 00:23:12,259
absolutely so that's the coast nap

546
00:23:15,909 --> 00:23:13,940
project which is a collaborative

547
00:23:18,399 --> 00:23:15,919
approach between the water wetlands and

548
00:23:20,830 --> 00:23:18,409
coast creative reh and also you know

549
00:23:22,690 --> 00:23:20,840
stubble use water research lab and the

550
00:23:24,310 --> 00:23:22,700
project is focusing at monitoring our

551
00:23:26,769 --> 00:23:24,320
shorelines and looking at the subtle

552
00:23:28,659 --> 00:23:26,779
changes while allowing the community to

553
00:23:31,210 --> 00:23:28,669
capture images from photo points and

554
00:23:33,190 --> 00:23:31,220
then give them to the researchers so

555
00:23:35,529 --> 00:23:33,200
they can do an image analysis on those

556
00:23:37,450 --> 00:23:35,539
images before providing the results of

557
00:23:38,889 --> 00:23:37,460
seeing how that sites changed and one

558
00:23:40,810 --> 00:23:38,899
thing I forgot to mention with the door

559
00:23:42,669 --> 00:23:40,820
because it's such a simple approach it's

560
00:23:46,029 --> 00:23:42,679
now global so from its humble beginnings

561
00:23:49,749 --> 00:23:46,039
in Sydney it's now in the UK USA and

562
00:23:51,909 --> 00:23:49,759
South America we've I believe more than

563
00:23:53,649 --> 00:23:51,919
10 News sites going to be put up in New

564
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:53,659
South Wales not too long it's a

565
00:23:57,129 --> 00:23:55,490
fantastic idea because as you are

566
00:23:59,649 --> 00:23:57,139
describing it and showing us on the

567
00:24:01,450 --> 00:23:59,659
screen there's a set point along the

568
00:24:03,970 --> 00:24:01,460
coast and people can walk up put their

569
00:24:05,950 --> 00:24:03,980
mobile phones at this end point take a

570
00:24:07,299 --> 00:24:05,960
picture and then submit it yeah

571
00:24:08,950 --> 00:24:07,309
absolutely they could just be going to

572
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:08,960
the beach for the swim and they can take

573
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:10,490
a photo as they go we live in the

574
00:24:15,340 --> 00:24:13,490
Instagram age and just like that two

575
00:24:17,350 --> 00:24:15,350
seconds they've contributed important

576
00:24:18,820 --> 00:24:17,360
information for our researchers and that

577
00:24:19,779 --> 00:24:18,830
can influence how we manage our beaches

578
00:24:22,060 --> 00:24:19,789
going into the future

579
00:24:23,660 --> 00:24:22,070
I love citizen science how can people

580
00:24:25,250 --> 00:24:23,670
find out more about

581
00:24:27,230 --> 00:24:25,260
what you're doing at the Museum well

582
00:24:29,330 --> 00:24:27,240
they can get in touch with me the museum

583
00:24:30,590 --> 00:24:29,340
or look up this tree Museum website the

584
00:24:32,780 --> 00:24:30,600
Australian is incentive is citizen

585
00:24:34,850 --> 00:24:32,790
science I'd also recommend the

586
00:24:37,460 --> 00:24:34,860
Australian the Australian citizen

587
00:24:38,930 --> 00:24:37,470
science Association yeah which this

588
00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:38,940
website for that as well and it is

589
00:24:44,570 --> 00:24:41,370
coordinating citizen science Australia

590
00:24:46,610 --> 00:24:44,580
wide so you can register with the AXA

591
00:24:48,380 --> 00:24:46,620
you can be you can find out about what

592
00:24:50,300 --> 00:24:48,390
projects are available in your area it's

593
00:24:52,340 --> 00:24:50,310
a museum we've got obviously cog IDs

594
00:24:55,220 --> 00:24:52,350
national say can be involved in frog ID

595
00:24:57,550 --> 00:24:55,230
digi bowl is a international project so

596
00:24:59,810 --> 00:24:57,560
you can be involved online with digital

597
00:25:01,610 --> 00:24:59,820
Australasian fishes once again is online

598
00:25:02,900 --> 00:25:01,620
as well so all these projects wherever

599
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:02,910
you are in Australia all around the

600
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:05,490
world you can be involved and acts that

601
00:25:09,710 --> 00:25:07,200
has more projects you can find out more

602
00:25:11,030 --> 00:25:09,720
about you can actually work out find out

603
00:25:14,060 --> 00:25:11,040
how you can be involved in the process

604
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:14,070
of governing citizen science in

605
00:25:18,350 --> 00:25:15,930
Australia and growing it and making it

606
00:25:20,660 --> 00:25:18,360
more reach more people and have more

607
00:25:22,550 --> 00:25:20,670
impact opportunities for everybody and

608
00:25:24,650 --> 00:25:22,560
how can people find out about what

609
00:25:25,850 --> 00:25:24,660
you're doing so they can check out the

610
00:25:27,830 --> 00:25:25,860
office of environment and heritage

611
00:25:29,630 --> 00:25:27,840
citizen science website where we have

612
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:29,640
arranged different projects are looking

613
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:31,890
at threatened species water quality and

614
00:25:35,660 --> 00:25:34,050
a range of other different initiatives

615
00:25:37,220 --> 00:25:35,670
and they can explore them and then get

616
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:37,230
in contact with us and we can guide them

617
00:25:40,430 --> 00:25:38,610
in the right direction to the project

618
00:25:42,410 --> 00:25:40,440
coordinator or just get in touch with us

619
00:25:44,450 --> 00:25:42,420
just ago I have a great citizen science

620
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:44,460
idea can you listen to me and explore

621
00:25:47,570 --> 00:25:46,290
what we can do in my backyard or my

622
00:25:49,550 --> 00:25:47,580
environment and we're happy to

623
00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:49,560
facilitate those conversations I mean

624
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:51,510
even inspired me we should have a

625
00:26:06,960 --> 00:25:53,850
citizen skepticism and tell me a pizza

626
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:08,220
[Music]

627
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:11,090
you know I gotta say Bigfoot's BS but

628
00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:13,010
the chupacabra is totally the result of

629
00:26:17,110 --> 00:26:14,510
top-secret government genetic

630
00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:17,120
experiments on remote island taken

631
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:19,520
medical advice from iguanas Paltrow like

632
00:26:23,470 --> 00:26:21,050
steaming your lady parts and putting

633
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:23,480
Jade eggs all up in that is a great way

634
00:26:28,090 --> 00:26:25,850
to improve your health police from

635
00:26:30,700 --> 00:26:28,100
around the world regularly use psychics

636
00:26:33,220 --> 00:26:30,710
to solve crimes they just don't talk

637
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:33,230
about it spontaneous human combustion

638
00:26:37,780 --> 00:26:35,930
is for sure a real thing I've read all

639
00:26:41,530 --> 00:26:37,790
about it on the internet and I worry

640
00:26:42,940 --> 00:26:41,540
someday it's going to happen to me we

641
00:26:45,340 --> 00:26:42,950
all have friends and family who believe

642
00:26:47,260 --> 00:26:45,350
these things and much more well if

643
00:26:49,030 --> 00:26:47,270
you're a rational thinker who is tired

644
00:26:50,980 --> 00:26:49,040
of arguing on social media and never

645
00:26:51,490 --> 00:26:50,990
getting anywhere we have a solution for

646
00:26:53,530 --> 00:26:51,500
you

647
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:53,540
join the guerrilla skepticism on

648
00:26:58,390 --> 00:26:55,850
wikipedia team and we will teach you how

649
00:27:00,310 --> 00:26:58,400
to add reliable scientific and skeptical

650
00:27:03,460 --> 00:27:00,320
information to the world's number-one

651
00:27:05,410 --> 00:27:03,470
source of information Wikipedia we write

652
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:05,420
new articles and improve existing ones

653
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:07,970
we remove pseudoscience paranormal and

654
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:10,130
altmed claims substituting the actual

655
00:27:14,980 --> 00:27:12,290
facts and we operate in many languages

656
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:14,990
we've already reached tens of millions

657
00:27:19,330 --> 00:27:17,330
of people searching for information but

658
00:27:22,420 --> 00:27:19,340
as you can imagine we can never do

659
00:27:25,030 --> 00:27:22,430
enough so please join us all you need is

660
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:25,040
a PC a Facebook account and the desire

661
00:27:29,050 --> 00:27:27,410
to help educate the planet in fact

662
00:27:29,710 --> 00:27:29,060
you'll be educating the world while you

663
00:27:34,260 --> 00:27:29,720
sleep

664
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:34,270
click to us at PSO w team @ gmail.com

665
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:49,370
guerrilla skepticism the time is now now

666
00:27:53,470 --> 00:27:50,810
recently we've been bringing you

667
00:27:54,910 --> 00:27:53,480
articles and reports from the skeptic

668
00:27:59,980 --> 00:27:54,920
magazine the journal from Australian

669
00:28:02,080 --> 00:27:59,990
skeptics which is available to you the

670
00:28:04,990 --> 00:28:02,090
entire collection by the last year going

671
00:28:08,500 --> 00:28:05,000
back nearly 40 years online at skeptics

672
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:08,510
calm today you thousands upon thousands

673
00:28:13,300 --> 00:28:10,970
of reports and interviews and articles

674
00:28:16,390 --> 00:28:13,310
to read and I thought this week I would

675
00:28:19,180 --> 00:28:16,400
bring you a report of a test

676
00:28:21,370 --> 00:28:19,190
undertaken by Australian skeptics I know

677
00:28:23,049 --> 00:28:21,380
it's very interesting a lot of people

678
00:28:25,900 --> 00:28:23,059
find us intensely interesting to find

679
00:28:29,460 --> 00:28:25,910
out about testing psychics and so on

680
00:28:33,910 --> 00:28:29,470
which we do from time to time or do we

681
00:28:38,740 --> 00:28:33,920
will read on and find out from volume 31

682
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:38,750
number one from March 2011 turning to

683
00:28:45,700 --> 00:28:41,050
page 10 a report by Ian price

684
00:28:48,730 --> 00:28:45,710
message not received Ian Bryce reports

685
00:29:00,100 --> 00:28:48,740
on a test of telepathy with less than

686
00:29:02,470 --> 00:29:00,110
perfect communication in 1980 Australian

687
00:29:06,180 --> 00:29:02,480
skeptics announced that it would offer a

688
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:06,190
monetary prize initially $10,000 and now

689
00:29:11,500 --> 00:29:09,170
$100,000 for any Australian resident who

690
00:29:14,710 --> 00:29:11,510
could prove a paranormal or psychic

691
00:29:17,500 --> 00:29:14,720
ability or phenomenon if such abilities

692
00:29:20,530 --> 00:29:17,510
or phenomena exist then the laws of

693
00:29:22,299 --> 00:29:20,540
science would need revision obviously

694
00:29:24,460 --> 00:29:22,309
this would be of great significance and

695
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:24,470
we would wish such abilities to be

696
00:29:29,590 --> 00:29:27,170
scientifically investigated if on the

697
00:29:31,990 --> 00:29:29,600
other hand proponents of such abilities

698
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:32,000
fail to perform as agreed then that

699
00:29:37,090 --> 00:29:34,610
would cast serious doubt on the ability

700
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:37,100
of that claimant to perform their

701
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:40,250
claimed ability that is not a universal

702
00:29:45,010 --> 00:29:42,890
negative but a body of similar examples

703
00:29:48,669 --> 00:29:45,020
over time will cast out in a more

704
00:29:51,100 --> 00:29:48,679
general sense our procedure is to have

705
00:29:53,380 --> 00:29:51,110
an initial less formal test to ascertain

706
00:29:55,930 --> 00:29:53,390
the nature of the claim including where

707
00:29:58,450 --> 00:29:55,940
relevant the claimants ability if this

708
00:30:00,700 --> 00:29:58,460
proves to be positive then we move to a

709
00:30:03,100 --> 00:30:00,710
formal test the nature of which is

710
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:03,110
mutually prepared and agreed and if

711
00:30:08,020 --> 00:30:05,090
again this test is positive the claimant

712
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:08,030
will win the award to dispose of how

713
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:11,210
they see fit since 1980 we have had

714
00:30:16,980 --> 00:30:13,730
challenges from around 100 claimants

715
00:30:19,540 --> 00:30:16,990
about 30 of these have led to attempted

716
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:19,550
demonstrations of paranormal powers and

717
00:30:27,010 --> 00:30:22,610
about 10 have progressed to formal tests

718
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:27,020
a new test in January 2010 we received

719
00:30:32,390 --> 00:30:29,730
an application that was different

720
00:30:36,530 --> 00:30:32,400
from the norm in that the initial claim

721
00:30:38,990 --> 00:30:36,540
arrived a via a law firm embedded in the

722
00:30:41,180 --> 00:30:39,000
usual legal formalities was the

723
00:30:45,110 --> 00:30:41,190
statement that the clients ability was

724
00:30:47,990 --> 00:30:45,120
to transfer information by paranormal

725
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:48,000
means from Australia the United States

726
00:30:52,730 --> 00:30:50,810
of America ie not through established

727
00:30:55,490 --> 00:30:52,740
telecommunications or other physical

728
00:30:58,520 --> 00:30:55,500
means we would call this quote clip

729
00:31:01,070 --> 00:30:58,530
a--they unquote although that was a term

730
00:31:03,590 --> 00:31:01,080
the claimant preferred not to use the

731
00:31:05,810 --> 00:31:03,600
Challenger was insistent that we prove

732
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:05,820
our bona fide ease though this was not

733
00:31:11,140 --> 00:31:08,370
reciprocated the claimant was apparently

734
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:11,150
reluctant to give his name address or

735
00:31:16,700 --> 00:31:14,330
identities of any assisting colleagues

736
00:31:19,250 --> 00:31:16,710
eventually we met the claimant and his

737
00:31:23,060 --> 00:31:19,260
lawyer at their letters office and found

738
00:31:26,660 --> 00:31:23,070
the claimant was Berryhill of Sydney he

739
00:31:28,340 --> 00:31:26,670
described his ability to us and we

740
00:31:30,110 --> 00:31:28,350
agreed on the following description

741
00:31:34,130 --> 00:31:30,120
although without using the term

742
00:31:36,530 --> 00:31:34,140
telepathy quote the claim is that the

743
00:31:39,260 --> 00:31:36,540
claimant has the ability to send

744
00:31:42,020 --> 00:31:39,270
information to a remote receiver without

745
00:31:43,670 --> 00:31:42,030
using any communication means known to

746
00:31:47,510 --> 00:31:43,680
science end quote

747
00:31:49,340 --> 00:31:47,520
test protocol Hill had evidently spent

748
00:31:51,770 --> 00:31:49,350
some time with his lawyer working on a

749
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:51,780
test procedure based on choosing from a

750
00:31:57,500 --> 00:31:54,450
list of shapes words and numbers over a

751
00:31:59,600 --> 00:31:57,510
few months we refined this into a simple

752
00:32:02,480 --> 00:31:59,610
protocol designed to provide quote

753
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:02,490
proper observing conditions end quote so

754
00:32:07,790 --> 00:32:04,410
that there would be confidence in the

755
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:07,800
results six lists of ten words were

756
00:32:13,310 --> 00:32:10,770
prepared animals Australian artists

757
00:32:16,550 --> 00:32:13,320
countries flowers Australian poets and

758
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:16,560
at Hills insistence Native American

759
00:32:23,780 --> 00:32:20,250
peoples on the day a ten sided die would

760
00:32:26,930 --> 00:32:23,790
be used to select and mark one item from

761
00:32:29,810 --> 00:32:26,940
each list during the half hour test Hill

762
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:29,820
would transmit the information to his

763
00:32:35,690 --> 00:32:33,330
receiver in New York who would mark the

764
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:35,700
answers on their copy of the results

765
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:38,130
sheet Hill expected a perfect score

766
00:32:42,410 --> 00:32:41,130
which could be expected only once in a

767
00:32:45,710 --> 00:32:42,420
million tests

768
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:45,720
if chance alone operated logistics and

769
00:32:50,900 --> 00:32:49,050
security the skeptics normally request

770
00:32:53,660 --> 00:32:50,910
that claimants cover any costs incurred

771
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:53,670
by either party in this case there was

772
00:32:59,090 --> 00:32:56,130
no significant costs other than time and

773
00:33:02,690 --> 00:32:59,100
effort the logistics required were

774
00:33:05,420 --> 00:33:02,700
considerable as was security we arranged

775
00:33:07,700 --> 00:33:05,430
our own team in New York made up of

776
00:33:10,310 --> 00:33:07,710
local skeptics in addition to our team

777
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:10,320
in Sydney he'll arrange for legal

778
00:33:14,300 --> 00:33:12,090
representatives in both cities to

779
00:33:16,340 --> 00:33:14,310
witness the event the time difference

780
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:16,350
dictated an early start in Sydney and

781
00:33:23,090 --> 00:33:20,010
late afternoon in New York rooms for the

782
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:23,100
tests were booked the exact location of

783
00:33:27,230 --> 00:33:24,690
which were known only to one person

784
00:33:29,030 --> 00:33:27,240
until the time of the test a meeting

785
00:33:31,250 --> 00:33:29,040
place within walking distance of each

786
00:33:33,890 --> 00:33:31,260
room was arranged in both cities and

787
00:33:34,430 --> 00:33:33,900
revealed to all parties 24 hours in

788
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:34,440
advance

789
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:38,130
once on-site electronic devices were to

790
00:33:45,650 --> 00:33:42,090
be surrendered with the option of frisk

791
00:33:48,050 --> 00:33:45,660
searches telephone communication was to

792
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:48,060
be strictly controlled and not used

793
00:33:53,330 --> 00:33:50,730
during the 30-minute test period and

794
00:33:56,510 --> 00:33:53,340
dive would not be thrown until after

795
00:33:59,210 --> 00:33:56,520
lockdown at the end the receiving party

796
00:34:02,000 --> 00:33:59,220
would relay their received words and the

797
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:02,010
results would be evident if the tests

798
00:34:07,700 --> 00:34:05,370
were successful or even significantly

799
00:34:10,790 --> 00:34:07,710
above chance we would offer a more

800
00:34:13,399 --> 00:34:10,800
formal retest at a later date following

801
00:34:16,580 --> 00:34:13,409
additional security procedures Hill

802
00:34:19,100 --> 00:34:16,590
readily agreed that if technical means

803
00:34:22,010 --> 00:34:19,110
were found to have been used after the

804
00:34:24,290 --> 00:34:22,020
event any prize paid would be refunded

805
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:24,300
to his credit he requested that the

806
00:34:29,690 --> 00:34:27,330
prize be paid to nominated charities as

807
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:29,700
the test date approached I asked hill to

808
00:34:35,380 --> 00:34:32,010
provide contact details for his New York

809
00:34:39,380 --> 00:34:35,390
receiver and her lawyer representative

810
00:34:42,380 --> 00:34:39,390
among various excuses all we were told

811
00:34:46,460 --> 00:34:42,390
was that his receiver was named sue and

812
00:34:49,790 --> 00:34:46,470
her lawyer Jamie and that communications

813
00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:49,800
would be available on the day test day

814
00:34:56,060 --> 00:34:54,720
at the designated time 6:30 a.m. Sydney

815
00:34:58,580 --> 00:34:56,070
time on November 4

816
00:35:00,710 --> 00:34:58,590
twenty ten teams on two sides of the

817
00:35:03,380 --> 00:35:00,720
world converged on their respective

818
00:35:05,330 --> 00:35:03,390
meeting places the skeptics team in

819
00:35:07,580 --> 00:35:05,340
Sydney consisted of Aaron Segev

820
00:35:09,890 --> 00:35:07,590
president of estranged skeptics Ian

821
00:35:12,710 --> 00:35:09,900
Bryce challenge coordinator Richard

822
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:12,720
Saunders vice president Jessica singer

823
00:35:17,990 --> 00:35:14,490
lawyer and New South Wales committee

824
00:35:20,330 --> 00:35:18,000
member and Peter Rogers a magician five

825
00:35:22,790 --> 00:35:20,340
people from the skeptics was indicative

826
00:35:26,570 --> 00:35:22,800
of the thoroughness of our approach

827
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:26,580
he'll arrived - his lawyer our New York

828
00:35:32,510 --> 00:35:29,370
team Lisa and Jacob made contact with a

829
00:35:34,970 --> 00:35:32,520
spy mobile phone they reported that they

830
00:35:37,460 --> 00:35:34,980
were still waiting on the specified

831
00:35:40,910 --> 00:35:37,470
corner for the claimants receiver and

832
00:35:43,580 --> 00:35:40,920
her representative to arrive the fact

833
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:43,590
that it was winter in New York meant

834
00:35:49,250 --> 00:35:46,290
that this delay was considerably

835
00:35:52,430 --> 00:35:49,260
inconvenient for them we asked Hill for

836
00:35:54,170 --> 00:35:52,440
his pairs mobile phone number he told us

837
00:35:56,660 --> 00:35:54,180
that they did not have mobiles due to

838
00:35:59,210 --> 00:35:56,670
concerns over health a New York lawyer

839
00:36:02,990 --> 00:35:59,220
without a mobile phone and the alarm

840
00:36:05,660 --> 00:36:03,000
bells got louder at these tests start

841
00:36:07,790 --> 00:36:05,670
time of 7:00 a.m. we in Sydney walked

842
00:36:11,180 --> 00:36:07,800
into the booked room and commenced our

843
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:11,190
security precautions at 7:20 the

844
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:14,160
receiver pair had still not arrived and

845
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:17,130
we gave Barry back his mobile phone and

846
00:36:22,030 --> 00:36:19,890
asked him to call them he insisted on

847
00:36:25,550 --> 00:36:22,040
doing this out of our sight and hearing

848
00:36:26,180 --> 00:36:25,560
he reported to us that quote they are on

849
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:26,190
their way

850
00:36:32,420 --> 00:36:29,370
held up in transport and quote at 7:30

851
00:36:34,340 --> 00:36:32,430
Barry communicated again and reported

852
00:36:37,070 --> 00:36:34,350
that his team were stuck in an elevator

853
00:36:39,740 --> 00:36:37,080
in the lawyers building we asked to

854
00:36:42,260 --> 00:36:39,750
speak to them directly by phone no he

855
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:42,270
replied this building had mobile phone

856
00:36:47,990 --> 00:36:44,490
blockage as a precaution since the 9/11

857
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:48,000
attacks then how had he contacted them

858
00:36:52,310 --> 00:36:50,010
apparently to the lawyer's office

859
00:36:54,890 --> 00:36:52,320
landline Hill said who advised him that

860
00:36:58,070 --> 00:36:54,900
there was a lift stuck and his receivers

861
00:37:00,800 --> 00:36:58,080
were probably in it as the room booking

862
00:37:03,380 --> 00:37:00,810
expired after an hour the test was

863
00:37:06,620 --> 00:37:03,390
called off on us for his reaction hill

864
00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:06,630
said quote I'm as mystified as you are

865
00:37:10,010 --> 00:37:08,880
in quote we all went home

866
00:37:14,450 --> 00:37:10,020
very

867
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:14,460
appointed aftermath I later asked Hill

868
00:37:19,460 --> 00:37:17,010
for contact details of his New York team

869
00:37:21,650 --> 00:37:19,470
so we could verify what happened and

870
00:37:24,020 --> 00:37:21,660
provide an explanation for our American

871
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:24,030
colleagues he refused and instead

872
00:37:29,150 --> 00:37:26,130
requested that we give him contact

873
00:37:31,910 --> 00:37:29,160
details of our team the mobile phone

874
00:37:33,980 --> 00:37:31,920
excuses were repeated both sue and Jamie

875
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:33,990
refused to use mobile phones due to

876
00:37:38,420 --> 00:37:36,330
health concerns in addition Hill said

877
00:37:40,310 --> 00:37:38,430
that quote written advice of the lift

878
00:37:42,890 --> 00:37:40,320
failure cannot be obtained due to

879
00:37:45,110 --> 00:37:42,900
possible litigation end quote Hill

880
00:37:47,300 --> 00:37:45,120
offered no apology or explanation and

881
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:47,310
instead demanded quote the tests will

882
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:49,530
resume in the first quarter of 2011 in

883
00:37:56,060 --> 00:37:53,370
quote conclusion formally the tests

884
00:37:58,120 --> 00:37:56,070
failed because the claimant and his team

885
00:38:00,530 --> 00:37:58,130
did not perform as claimed an

886
00:38:03,140 --> 00:38:00,540
unfortunate result of the way Hill had

887
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:03,150
handled all this is that we have no

888
00:38:09,530 --> 00:38:06,450
evidence to support his account of sue

889
00:38:12,260 --> 00:38:09,540
and Jamie's strange predicament or even

890
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:12,270
of their existence there is a way is the

891
00:38:16,820 --> 00:38:14,130
possibility that the claimant might be

892
00:38:19,730 --> 00:38:16,830
delusional which is why we have

893
00:38:21,770 --> 00:38:19,740
preliminary tests this is not to say

894
00:38:25,700 --> 00:38:21,780
this was the situation in this case as

895
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:25,710
the inability of the test to proceed may

896
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:28,890
well have been due to misadventure but

897
00:38:33,860 --> 00:38:31,050
to date we have no information to

898
00:38:35,930 --> 00:38:33,870
substantiate that conclusion and Hill so

899
00:38:38,300 --> 00:38:35,940
far has refused to give us relevant

900
00:38:41,210 --> 00:38:38,310
contact details so we can undertake our

901
00:38:43,610 --> 00:38:41,220
own investigations this is a lesson for

902
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:43,620
all tests to ensure that all parties

903
00:38:49,010 --> 00:38:46,650
have full information prior to any tests

904
00:38:51,290 --> 00:38:49,020
preceding Hill refused to give this

905
00:38:54,710 --> 00:38:51,300
information and despite the fact that it

906
00:38:57,100 --> 00:38:54,720
was our $100,000 at risk we acquiesced

907
00:38:59,060 --> 00:38:57,110
as an indication of our goodwill

908
00:39:01,490 --> 00:38:59,070
claimants and supporters of the

909
00:39:04,070 --> 00:39:01,500
paranormal claims are often sometimes

910
00:39:06,700 --> 00:39:04,080
too ready to cast aspersions against the

911
00:39:09,530 --> 00:39:06,710
sceptic sincerity we feel that as

912
00:39:12,410 --> 00:39:09,540
indicated by the time nepheline to the

913
00:39:15,290 --> 00:39:12,420
test that this is a totally unfair and

914
00:39:18,410 --> 00:39:15,300
unwarranted suggestion we cannot always

915
00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:18,420
say the same for claimants despite Hills

916
00:39:23,630 --> 00:39:20,730
a unilateral statement that the tests

917
00:39:25,700 --> 00:39:23,640
would be refilled early this year from

918
00:39:28,430 --> 00:39:25,710
our point of view we will not resume

919
00:39:31,490 --> 00:39:28,440
another test of Hill for 12 months at

920
00:39:33,830 --> 00:39:31,500
least if at all any future tests will

921
00:39:36,830 --> 00:39:33,840
require complete unrestricted

922
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:36,840
information supplied to us and direct

923
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:38,930
contact with any assistance he may have

924
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:41,850
we would sincerely like to thank our New

925
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:44,130
York contacts Lisa and Jacob for

926
00:39:48,860 --> 00:39:46,290
volunteering to take part in this

927
00:39:52,070 --> 00:39:48,870
investigation and for their diligence

928
00:39:54,260 --> 00:39:52,080
and time it indicates the great value of

929
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:54,270
having a network of skeptics around the

930
00:39:59,240 --> 00:39:56,490
world to investigate such claims

931
00:40:01,150 --> 00:39:59,250
wherever they would be willing to brave

932
00:40:03,380 --> 00:40:01,160
the New York City winter again

933
00:40:09,260 --> 00:40:03,390
particularly considering the failure of

934
00:40:11,540 --> 00:40:09,270
the test is up to them and that was

935
00:40:13,940 --> 00:40:11,550
message not received written by Ian

936
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:13,950
Bryce and you can read that and many

937
00:40:20,660 --> 00:40:16,850
more articles for yourself by a visiting

938
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:20,670
WWC upticks calm you and following the

939
00:40:33,740 --> 00:40:32,130
links to the magazine hi this is Heidi

940
00:40:37,010 --> 00:40:33,750
Robertson from the Northern Rivers

941
00:40:39,230 --> 00:40:37,020
vaccination supporters we are a group of

942
00:40:41,330 --> 00:40:39,240
concerned citizens dedicated to

943
00:40:43,970 --> 00:40:41,340
promoting good science and common sense

944
00:40:47,060 --> 00:40:43,980
in our region the far north coast of New

945
00:40:49,390 --> 00:40:47,070
South Wales this area are famous for its

946
00:40:52,580 --> 00:40:49,400
natural beauty and relaxed lifestyle

947
00:40:55,670 --> 00:40:52,590
also has the lowest rates of vaccination

948
00:40:57,350 --> 00:40:55,680
in Australia we are out to change that

949
00:41:00,080 --> 00:40:57,360
by challenging the myths and

950
00:41:02,300 --> 00:41:00,090
misinformation and by providing good

951
00:41:05,180 --> 00:41:02,310
evidence-based information to the

952
00:41:07,610 --> 00:41:05,190
community we'd love for you no matter

953
00:41:14,500 --> 00:41:07,620
where you are in the world to join our

954
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:14,510
fight please visit our web page at WWF

955
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:18,090
in folk we also have a link there to our

956
00:41:23,270 --> 00:41:19,130
Facebook page

957
00:41:24,350 --> 00:41:23,280
tweet us at in our FAQs supporters

958
00:41:26,750 --> 00:41:24,360
that's VA

959
00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:26,760
and check us out on Wikipedia by

960
00:41:43,790 --> 00:41:28,730
searching for Northern Rivers

961
00:41:58,530 --> 00:41:43,800
vaccination supporters thank you let's

962
00:42:05,220 --> 00:42:01,080
yes it's Trish and chips with Trish

963
00:42:06,990 --> 00:42:05,230
hello trees look congratulations and

964
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:07,000
welcome aboard you've been on the

965
00:42:09,540 --> 00:42:08,650
skipping zone before for a while but now

966
00:42:11,970 --> 00:42:09,550
you're official

967
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:11,980
well it's scary isn't it weird skeptics

968
00:42:16,830 --> 00:42:14,770
in the pub by the way and you and I are

969
00:42:18,930 --> 00:42:16,840
sitting here racking our brains trying

970
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:18,940
to come up with this month's question

971
00:42:23,670 --> 00:42:22,090
but you're yeah you're seriously you're

972
00:42:25,380 --> 00:42:23,680
on Collin you could be whisked away at

973
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:25,390
any moment yeah if that horrible thing

974
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:27,850
starts bleeping then off I go what would

975
00:42:32,910 --> 00:42:30,970
you be doing when you go off oh so I'm

976
00:42:34,980 --> 00:42:32,920
on call for interventional radiology

977
00:42:37,610 --> 00:42:34,990
tonight which is basically if anyone in

978
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:37,620
the Sydney surrounds has a stroke or

979
00:42:42,420 --> 00:42:40,690
starts unexplained bleeding or explained

980
00:42:47,430 --> 00:42:42,430
bleeding then that's where we go off and

981
00:42:50,340 --> 00:42:47,440
fix so you fly up down the stairs not to

982
00:42:51,780 --> 00:42:50,350
break both of my legs in the process and

983
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:51,790
you don't go to the kitchen you go

984
00:42:55,590 --> 00:42:53,170
straight out what do you get a taxi to

985
00:42:57,570 --> 00:42:55,600
straight to the hospital yeah depending

986
00:42:59,550 --> 00:42:57,580
on the traffic anyway here we are at

987
00:43:00,930 --> 00:42:59,560
skeptics and it's filling up I must say

988
00:43:03,240 --> 00:43:00,940
skeptics in the pub would say it's a

989
00:43:05,940 --> 00:43:03,250
good thing is a Jessica Singer over

990
00:43:08,910 --> 00:43:05,950
there and waving abysses he's setting up

991
00:43:10,290 --> 00:43:08,920
we got a smattering of a committee

992
00:43:12,750 --> 00:43:10,300
members here tonight and I brought my

993
00:43:14,460 --> 00:43:12,760
spoons which is pretty cool when do you

994
00:43:17,030 --> 00:43:14,470
ever not have your spoon I don't know

995
00:43:23,490 --> 00:43:17,040
always your weight armed and dangerous

996
00:43:24,710 --> 00:43:23,500
spoon spoon so but folks you know every

997
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:24,720
every month

998
00:43:28,770 --> 00:43:27,370
Skippy's and listeners know there's a

999
00:43:31,530 --> 00:43:28,780
report from skeptics in the pub and we

1000
00:43:33,090 --> 00:43:31,540
always have the skeptic girl question

1001
00:43:35,790 --> 00:43:33,100
the sceptical question of the month and

1002
00:43:39,210 --> 00:43:35,800
we can't think of one what are we going

1003
00:43:40,950 --> 00:43:39,220
to ask people tonight hey nice we're

1004
00:43:42,390 --> 00:43:40,960
boring Blaine's who knows maybe that

1005
00:43:45,090 --> 00:43:42,400
should be the question what what we

1006
00:43:49,490 --> 00:43:45,100
should we ask what's the question the

1007
00:43:56,220 --> 00:43:54,030
let's let's let's grab a drink and we'll

1008
00:44:01,050 --> 00:43:56,230
try to come up with tonight's question

1009
00:44:03,690 --> 00:44:01,060
that's a good plan so after racking our

1010
00:44:04,830 --> 00:44:03,700
brains for a few minutes I think I

1011
00:44:07,590 --> 00:44:04,840
finally come up with a question for

1012
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:07,600
tonight and my first interviewee is

1013
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:09,370
going to be Richard Saunders hello

1014
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:13,690
Richard surprise how does it feel to be

1015
00:44:18,210 --> 00:44:15,970
on the receiving end oh I'm on the

1016
00:44:22,110 --> 00:44:18,220
receiving end of a lot of things no it's

1017
00:44:24,330 --> 00:44:22,120
great it's great okay so um obviously

1018
00:44:26,340 --> 00:44:24,340
next week is Valentine's Day the patron

1019
00:44:28,110 --> 00:44:26,350
saint of the lovers is st. Valentine who

1020
00:44:33,350 --> 00:44:28,120
in your opinion is the patron saint of

1021
00:44:39,180 --> 00:44:36,330
mean it would be tempting simply to say

1022
00:44:42,210 --> 00:44:39,190
James Randi and be done with it and it's

1023
00:44:45,150 --> 00:44:42,220
probably a good answer but I'd be also

1024
00:44:49,050 --> 00:44:45,160
tempted to say even before Randy would

1025
00:44:52,860 --> 00:44:49,060
be Carl Sagan that might come up a lot

1026
00:44:54,240 --> 00:44:52,870
too I think if you have two patron

1027
00:44:56,850 --> 00:44:54,250
saints it would have to be Randy and

1028
00:44:59,240 --> 00:44:56,860
Sagan I would think good question

1029
00:45:01,710 --> 00:44:59,250
excellent choices fantastic

1030
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:01,720
so I'm now here with Jessica singer so

1031
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:03,010
Jessica singer who would your patron

1032
00:45:07,290 --> 00:45:05,290
saint of skepticism be oh well I'd say

1033
00:45:09,180 --> 00:45:07,300
that begs the question of should

1034
00:45:13,950 --> 00:45:09,190
skeptics have a saint

1035
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:13,960
at all and I know there's a lot of hero

1036
00:45:21,930 --> 00:45:18,370
worship in the movement and particularly

1037
00:45:25,890 --> 00:45:21,940
in the u.s. oh yeah and in Australia and

1038
00:45:27,690 --> 00:45:25,900
probably in in the UK as well a common

1039
00:45:30,150 --> 00:45:27,700
thread that runs through is that we

1040
00:45:34,500 --> 00:45:30,160
don't like that kind of hero worship and

1041
00:45:36,570 --> 00:45:34,510
it's all for our to uncritical and you

1042
00:45:40,710 --> 00:45:36,580
know just as a cult of personality right

1043
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:40,720
yeah exactly exactly so I'd say we're

1044
00:45:47,130 --> 00:45:42,970
skeptics are no Saints there we go

1045
00:45:49,550 --> 00:45:47,140
controversial we turn the tables again

1046
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:49,560
Trish who who do you think

1047
00:45:54,010 --> 00:45:51,090
who do you think could be up there on

1048
00:45:57,710 --> 00:45:54,020
the glass window as a patron saint's

1049
00:45:59,270 --> 00:45:57,720
skepticism well I'm kind of torn because

1050
00:46:04,490 --> 00:45:59,280
you know I think it should be someone

1051
00:46:07,910 --> 00:46:04,500
fairly photogenic oh yeah and so I think

1052
00:46:11,210 --> 00:46:07,920
it should be Tim mentioned Tim Minchin

1053
00:46:12,740 --> 00:46:11,220
yeah he's pretty good-looking he's not

1054
00:46:15,590 --> 00:46:12,750
bad to look at I'm on a stained-glass

1055
00:46:18,830 --> 00:46:15,600
window you can carry a tune absolutely

1056
00:46:22,370 --> 00:46:18,840
exactly exactly and you know he has sung

1057
00:46:26,060 --> 00:46:22,380
about the Pope so we have here embrace

1058
00:46:27,470 --> 00:46:26,070
in as you may or may not be aware next

1059
00:46:29,900 --> 00:46:27,480
week is Valentine's Day

1060
00:46:32,690 --> 00:46:29,910
oh okay the patron saint of the lovers

1061
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:32,700
is st. Valentine in your opinion who

1062
00:46:39,590 --> 00:46:34,650
should be the patron saint of skepticism

1063
00:46:45,590 --> 00:46:39,600
the patron saint of skepticism I think

1064
00:46:47,540 --> 00:46:45,600
that's James Randi and why well he's

1065
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:47,550
done more to promote skepticism I think

1066
00:46:52,270 --> 00:46:49,650
than most some Thomas Aquinas is often

1067
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:52,280
mentioned but he his deaths were

1068
00:46:58,550 --> 00:46:56,370
mediocre he doesn't really know James

1069
00:47:03,350 --> 00:46:58,560
Randi okay he had the flim-flam no

1070
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:03,360
that's the wrong to have the bleep was

1071
00:47:07,940 --> 00:47:05,130
that right and flim-flam was a

1072
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:07,950
derogatory term for the whoo that he's

1073
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:10,770
that he had the bling in presenting at

1074
00:47:14,579 --> 00:47:12,810
Southside James Randi excellent good

1075
00:47:17,910 --> 00:47:14,589
choice

1076
00:47:19,620 --> 00:47:17,920
I am now here with Tim Mendham the

1077
00:47:23,579 --> 00:47:19,630
executive officer for Australian

1078
00:47:26,309 --> 00:47:23,589
skeptics to give him his full title so

1079
00:47:29,130 --> 00:47:26,319
Tim what would you your answer for the

1080
00:47:32,459 --> 00:47:29,140
question tonight be well I've given this

1081
00:47:34,589 --> 00:47:32,469
a great deal of thought over the years I

1082
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:34,599
must have spent at least five minutes on

1083
00:47:40,019 --> 00:47:37,450
it so but I would say obviously it has

1084
00:47:43,829 --> 00:47:40,029
to be William of Ockham known for his

1085
00:47:45,749 --> 00:47:43,839
shaving gear he's got a sharp wit it

1086
00:47:48,329 --> 00:47:45,759
very sharp wit he can cut yourself with

1087
00:47:51,329 --> 00:47:48,339
an AC so William of Occam's razor which

1088
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:51,339
is a cos in Latin because of as oh there

1089
00:47:55,140 --> 00:47:52,690
under the cotton whether it is in Latin

1090
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:55,150
but it's not billed desperandum no

1091
00:48:00,120 --> 00:47:57,130
something else but it obviously means do

1092
00:48:01,499 --> 00:48:00,130
not multiply solutions be unnecessary in

1093
00:48:04,319 --> 00:48:01,509
other words the simplest answer is

1094
00:48:05,670 --> 00:48:04,329
normally the best and basically don't

1095
00:48:08,339 --> 00:48:05,680
use explanations which are so

1096
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:08,349
complicated they have to sort of you

1097
00:48:11,309 --> 00:48:09,729
have to change everything they make them

1098
00:48:13,589 --> 00:48:11,319
feel and this is why people like

1099
00:48:17,819 --> 00:48:13,599
creationists and all sorts of people do

1100
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:17,829
they have to twist and turn in their

1101
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:20,170
science in quotes together something

1102
00:48:24,180 --> 00:48:21,729
that works in the real world

1103
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:24,190
where's often you just say up it's

1104
00:48:27,059 --> 00:48:25,690
pretty straightforward and this is the

1105
00:48:29,759 --> 00:48:27,069
answer and I would say he's within

1106
00:48:31,799 --> 00:48:29,769
welcome this is them make insane that's

1107
00:48:33,720 --> 00:48:31,809
pretty that's a unique artist night well

1108
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:33,730
done congratulations

1109
00:48:39,250 --> 00:48:36,410
so I am now here with Jessica hazard

1110
00:48:41,110 --> 00:48:39,260
white Jessica as you may know it's

1111
00:48:43,270 --> 00:48:41,120
Valentine's Day next week and the patron

1112
00:48:47,050 --> 00:48:43,280
saint of the lovers is some Valentine

1113
00:48:48,700 --> 00:48:47,060
who is your patron saint of skepticism

1114
00:48:54,910 --> 00:48:48,710
you're gonna cringe at me when I say

1115
00:48:58,450 --> 00:48:54,920
this but Trish Hahn patron saint because

1116
00:49:00,760 --> 00:48:58,460
we need more smart young boldly women

1117
00:49:02,890 --> 00:49:00,770
and skepticism who don't take any

1118
00:49:11,350 --> 00:49:02,900
and that is what you do she just called

1119
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:11,360
me on ok I'm changing my answer

1120
00:49:25,340 --> 00:49:16,370
so Jessica hazard white it's a skeptical

1121
00:49:25,350 --> 00:49:40,420
[Music]

1122
00:49:44,109 --> 00:49:41,669
[Applause]

1123
00:49:46,509 --> 00:49:44,119
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1124
00:49:48,309 --> 00:49:46,519
zone and now here's a note from our

1125
00:49:50,739 --> 00:49:48,319
friends in Canberra for Canberra

1126
00:49:55,029 --> 00:49:50,749
skeptics Canberra skeptics proudly

1127
00:49:56,739 --> 00:49:55,039
presents talking plain about GMOs now

1128
00:50:01,029 --> 00:49:56,749
this will be on Tuesday the tooth of

1129
00:50:03,009 --> 00:50:01,039
March 2019 starting at 6 p.m. and the

1130
00:50:05,439 --> 00:50:03,019
speaker is Jose barrio

1131
00:50:08,620 --> 00:50:05,449
the venue the Belconnen community

1132
00:50:11,259 --> 00:50:08,630
services 26 Chandler Street Belconnen in

1133
00:50:13,029 --> 00:50:11,269
the AC T and the cost is free humans

1134
00:50:14,859 --> 00:50:13,039
have been using breeding for thousands

1135
00:50:17,529 --> 00:50:14,869
of years to genetically modified plants

1136
00:50:19,660 --> 00:50:17,539
and animals since domestication started

1137
00:50:22,539 --> 00:50:19,670
but as the human population rapidly

1138
00:50:24,549 --> 00:50:22,549
heads towards 8 billion people the

1139
00:50:27,219 --> 00:50:24,559
challenges of feeding ourselves is

1140
00:50:29,589 --> 00:50:27,229
becoming greater genetically modified

1141
00:50:31,809 --> 00:50:29,599
organisms GMOs is an essential

1142
00:50:34,029 --> 00:50:31,819
technology to safely increase yields

1143
00:50:35,829 --> 00:50:34,039
while minimizing the use of resources

1144
00:50:38,319 --> 00:50:35,839
such as land or water

1145
00:50:41,229 --> 00:50:38,329
and reducing the need for fertilisers

1146
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:41,239
and pesticides however only a handful of

1147
00:50:46,479 --> 00:50:43,729
GMOs are currently approved and used in

1148
00:50:48,900 --> 00:50:46,489
agriculture general public opposition to

1149
00:50:51,849 --> 00:50:48,910
GMOs is delaying the development and

1150
00:50:54,419 --> 00:50:51,859
legislation of a multitude of beneficial

1151
00:50:57,370 --> 00:50:54,429
GMOs and biotechnological applications

1152
00:51:00,339 --> 00:50:57,380
so find out more at that free talk and

1153
00:51:03,069 --> 00:51:00,349
for more information just head to

1154
00:51:05,739 --> 00:51:03,079
Canberra skeptics org

1155
00:51:07,870 --> 00:51:05,749
or look them up on Facebook with a link

1156
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:07,880
in this week's show notes coming up on

1157
00:51:12,609 --> 00:51:09,890
next week's show we hope to bring you an

1158
00:51:15,479 --> 00:51:12,619
interview with mark Edward market Wood

1159
00:51:18,759 --> 00:51:15,489
who wrote the book psychic blues about

1160
00:51:21,009 --> 00:51:18,769
cold reading and psychic reading and all

1161
00:51:22,959 --> 00:51:21,019
that sort of thing also this week I'll

1162
00:51:24,729 --> 00:51:22,969
give the word around to my reporters see

1163
00:51:26,650 --> 00:51:24,739
what goodies they can come up with and

1164
00:51:28,900 --> 00:51:26,660
thank you to those people who recently

1165
00:51:31,299 --> 00:51:28,910
joined the skeptic zone of a hi patreon

1166
00:51:34,419 --> 00:51:31,309
you can do that at skipping zone dot TV

1167
00:51:38,019 --> 00:51:34,429
and your contribution will keep the show

1168
00:51:39,669 --> 00:51:38,029
going for everybody to enjoy but for

1169
00:51:45,570 --> 00:51:39,679
this week this is Richard Saunders

1170
00:51:50,980 --> 00:51:48,070
you've been listening to the skeptic

1171
00:51:57,670 --> 00:51:50,990
zone podcast please visit our website at

1172
00:52:01,170 --> 00:51:57,680
wwlp.com tax and to access the bat

1173
00:52:03,850 --> 00:52:01,180
catalog of episodes going back to 2008

1174
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:03,860
you can follow the skeptic zone podcast

1175
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:07,130
on twitter at skeptic zone visit our

1176
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:09,410
facebook page or leave a review on

1177
00:52:16,150 --> 00:52:12,770
itunes you can also support the skeptic

1178
00:52:18,490 --> 00:52:16,160
zone via patreon or PayPal the skeptic

1179
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:18,500
zone podcast is an independent

1180
00:52:22,660 --> 00:52:20,450
production reviews and opinions

1181
00:52:24,790 --> 00:52:22,670
expressed on the skeptic zone are not

1182
00:52:27,730 --> 00:52:24,800
necessarily those of Australian skeptics

1183
00:52:44,190 --> 00:52:27,740
or any other skeptical organisation

1184
00:52:49,809 --> 00:52:46,900
helloyou afterthought people the people

1185
00:52:51,700 --> 00:52:49,819
who hang around to play the dice game 10

1186
00:52:58,240 --> 00:52:51,710
sided die I've got it in a container

1187
00:53:00,040 --> 00:52:58,250
this week rattling around so the the

1188
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:00,050
game is simple for those people who are

1189
00:53:06,970 --> 00:53:02,810
new to play every once in a while I'll

1190
00:53:10,660 --> 00:53:06,980
roll a tin sided die three times and you

1191
00:53:12,490 --> 00:53:10,670
have to use yourself you have to use

1192
00:53:16,420 --> 00:53:12,500
your psychic yes you have to use your

1193
00:53:18,849 --> 00:53:16,430
psychic predicting power to predict what

1194
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:18,859
number will come up while you're

1195
00:53:22,630 --> 00:53:20,930
predicting the past drill it because

1196
00:53:24,730 --> 00:53:22,640
depending on when you're listening to

1197
00:53:26,980 --> 00:53:24,740
this this either happened a few days ago

1198
00:53:29,309 --> 00:53:26,990
a few weeks ago a few years ago a few

1199
00:53:31,870 --> 00:53:29,319
decades ago anyway here we go

1200
00:53:34,660 --> 00:53:31,880
dices in the little container the dive

1201
00:53:35,770 --> 00:53:34,670
gonna roll it rattle it three times and

1202
00:53:42,089 --> 00:53:35,780
see what number comes up are you

1203
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:42,099
predicting here we go first number three

1204
00:53:53,130 --> 00:53:46,970
hmm number three ready again predict

1205
00:54:00,660 --> 00:53:53,140
away here we go and it stops on two

1206
00:54:04,870 --> 00:54:00,670
three and two one last time predict and

1207
00:54:07,690 --> 00:54:04,880
it stops again on number three so three